Welcome to Spirit + Soul, the monthly publication exploring our unique and sacred spiritual paths.
Aleshia: I'm excited for today's interview because I'm sitting down with my Aunt Dollie. My Aunt Dollie is like a second mom to me and she's one of the strongest people that I know. It's an honor to sit down and have this conversation. So, Aunt Dollie, why don't you start with telling people how, how young you are?
Aunt Dollie: I am 72 years young—72 years young.
Aleshia: Looks like she's 53! Get it, get it. So, one of the things about me is that I've always loved older people. People say that I'm an old soul. If you think I'm an old soul, you should hear my daughter who is two and a half. She's an old soul.
Aunt Dollie was always the one who I love to go hang out with because she used to listen to blues music and curse all the time, among other things.
I probably shouldn't say that.
Sorry, mama.
But yeah, it's an honor. I think it's important that we capture these stories as much as we can. So, Aunt Dollie, why don't you talk a little bit about how growing up in the south has impacted your current faith and belief system?
Aunt Dollie: Well, growing up in the south I'm from Poplar Grove, Arkansas, and we lived in like a five room house.
With 15 of us living in this house, you had to have faith back then to even try to put people to bed, where you're going to sleep, and where you're going to get your money from.
We didn't have jobs. I was a sharecropper. So, we had to pick cotton. We chopped cotton. Some days we missed school so we could go make money so we could have lunch money for school.
My grandmother, my grandfather, and my mother, all of them, they were real religious people and they taught us, you pray, you ask God for whatever you need. Quit worrying about stuff. Just give it to God.
You know, my mom couldn't afford to buy stuff sometimes, and I just prayed, “God, please let my mom get some money, or let me be able to go make some money or something so I can help my mom out.”
So, I had to look to God for it, and it happened every time. Someone would come to us sometimes. We had, like, big gardens, and maybe one of my teachers would even say, “Did you all grow greens this year? Can you bring me like three bags and I'll give you money for it?” So, you know, like, thank God, thank you Lord. Cause you did do this for us. You know, I asked for his help and he did.
Aleshia: I feel you're like that way now, too. Even when somebody calls you with some hard news, like I'm thinking about when Uncle Tom transitioned. Right—you didn't really show like you were worried.
I want to know where does that strength come from? Because you're often the one that people call all the time, no matter what. You gotta have that strength come from somewhere.
Aunt Dollie: I like to say, I like family and I want to be close to my family. So, I always pray to God, give me strength for whatever we got to go through. Give me the strength to be able to, you know, accept whatever you're going to do or give us. Give me the strength to go through this.
Like what I said about my Uncle Tom, he was like a brother to me. And, I looked at his children and I see what they was going through and I'm like, Dollie, you the one that gotta be strong. You was the next closest to him and everybody. A lot of people thought that he was my brother instead of my uncle.
So I, you know, I just had to pray. Lord, help me to accept this and a lot of people don't know. It really tore me down on the inside, but I couldn't show it on the outside because I didn't want to break the other family members down. So I just prayed, Lord, help me, Lord, help me.
It's only been about two months probably— since I really just gave, you know, just gave up and said, “Okay, Lord, I got to accept what you, you know, you took out Uncle Tom.”
I just have to accept that and give me the strength, Lord, to get over it.
So, now my mind is kind of settled, like, where I've accepted his death.
Yeah. So you have to pray. It comes from praying. You had to pray day, night, secret. I mean, you just got to pray.
Aleshia: Have there ever been times when you think about times like Uncle Tom or Uncle Sam, where you were angry with God?
If you were, how did you make it through the anger?
Aunt Dollie: I never was angry with God and I never questioned. I think my mother's death was the hardest one. I wasn't angry with him, but I didn't understand why he took her when he did. You know, cause I was like, she fell and broke a hip and I was going to Arkansas every weekend—every weekend.
And I'm just praying like, Lord, please heal my mother. Let your will be done. And it was his will to say, hey, it's time for her to go. So I had to accept that. She always told us that she never wanted any of her kids to have to give up their life to have to help her— you know and take care of her.
She said I want to go before that time come and she felt like when she broke her hip that that was gonna be it. I'm not gonna sit here and have my kid running from state to state trying to take care of me.
Aleshia: I didn't know she said that.
Aunt Dollie: Yes, she did. She always said that and like the day she died, she had called me and told me to stop running down there. “Don't come down this weekend. So, you stop running back and forth.” I said, “Mom, you can't tell me when to come see you. I'll come see you when I feel like it”—then she said, “Oh, oh, I'll stop you.”
And she did stop me, because she died.
But, I still was there that weekend cause we went on and buried her. So, I did not know. Yeah.
Aleshia: I don't want to say that's kind of funny, but like it just shows grandma's stubbornness.
Aunt Dollie: Yes, it was stubborn. She was very stubborn. She always told us that you all would never have to give up your life to take care of me.
She meant that.
Aleshia: Wow. You learn something new every day.
Aunt Dollie: Mm hmm. I said, “Mom, did the doctor tell you when you can go home?” And she said, “Yeah. He said, I can go home Wednesday.” We're like, well, when were you going to tell us so we can, you know, kind of figure out who's coming the first week, who's going to stay the second week and all that.
She said, “You don't have to worry about that. I'm going home Wednesday.”
She did.
Aleshia: But, she meant heavenly home. I normally don't say stuff is eerie too much. But I think they always say, you know.
Aunt Dollie: Well, even before she died, she had gave me and my sisters antiques. Well, the day she fell and broke her hip, that same day, we were leaving from Arkansas, coming back to Missouri, and she had gave my sister something, she gave me some dishes that I had given her, like when I first came to St. Louis and she gave those back. She gave each one of us everything she wanted us to have.
Aleshia: I mean, just to be in that tune where, you know, something is getting ready to happen. I think one of the things, one of the traits that the women have in our family, is that we're all connected to the Divine in different ways. You know, just like when you kept dreaming of fishes and you couldn't figure out who was pregnant.
Aunt Dollie: Someone was pregnant.
Aleshia: And it was me.
Yeah. Or even like, the ancestors coming to me and my dreams to relay messages. I think that's something that most of the women, at least on the Kirby side, I think we all have that trait. However, through whatever reasons, some people are still just more tapped into it than others.
Aunt Dollie: Right. I can always tell too—something going to happen, I can't just put my finger on who it is you know or what's going to happen, but I can always tell something's going to happen. I just never say anything about it. And then when it happened, I'm like, that's what you were showing me, Lord. That's what you were showing me.
Aleshia: It's kind of scary too. Sometimes, especially when you know, it's something that's not positive and you have to exercise discretion about, am I going to say something about this or is this something that I should I say something? Yeah, I keep it to myself. I always ask. I'm like, can I share this, with you?
Aunt Dollie: But it also goes to discernment. You have to know like, Lord, even if you give me this now, you know, I can't take this to them.
Aleshia: Right. No, I can't do that. Right. You've always been the one who was just like something that's off. I can't put my finger on it, but something's off.
Aunt Dollie: Yeah. Always.
Aleshia: So when was the first time you experienced God for yourself?
Aunt Dollie: Well, I think I was like 15, 16 years old and we used to go to church all the time. Our parents had us in church. If they could do it seven days a week, we was going to be there seven days a week. So, they used to have what they called a morning bench. And we had to go and sit on the front of the pews. And you will pray with the deacons and all of them, the pastor, you know, the mothers and they will pray and say, pray, pray.
So our parents would always tell us, you cannot stay at the house because you're not going to be praying to God. Go off to yourself and go pray. And we're like, why are they trying to make us do this? You know, I mean—nothing gonna come from this. So, morning bench goes from Sunday to Sunday. And that Thursday night, I think it was—yeah it was Thursday night.
I had been out praying all day, all day, “Lord, if I'm going to get my religion, show me a sign. Just show me a sign. I said, shake me, make me run or do something.” So that Thursday night, everybody was off the morning bench and I was the only one still sitting there. So I'm like, I don't know what's going on.
I done prayed to God.
All of a sudden I start crying.
I couldn't stop crying.
I just jumped up and down.
Started moving and running and jumping up and down.
The next day I knew— my mother was over in the corner tearing the church up too. Said, “Lord, you got her. That's her. That's her. You got her.” So, you know, the next day I felt like I was a changed person.
I didn't feel the same.
Things I used to do and say I stopped doing them and everybody kept saying, “You know what? You look different too.” Well, yeah, cause God had cleaned my heart. I had faith then that I could ask God whatever, you know, that I wanted or I needed and he would help me.
I got laid off on a job once and it looked like everything was just gone. I was going to lose my car, lose, you know, charge cards and stuff for getting behind. And I said, “Lord, You gotta fix this for me.” I said, “Cause I'm a hardworking person and I want to be at work. I don't want to lose everything that I don't work for.”
And I said, “If you're going to take care of this for me, Lord, show me a sign. Just show me a sign.” And I just looked up in the sky and something that looked like it said, job. The next day I got a call from a job and I was hired.
If you’re serious about it, he will answer your prayers.
Aleshia: Yes. When you say morning bench, do you mean like M-O-U-R-N-I-N-G for grief or in the morning.
Aunt Dollie: Yeah. The morning, morning bench. Yeah. It was something that I, I don't know if they still have it now or not, but I know the country people did and they were serious about it. They didn't play about it. You were going to be serious. Grandma prayed for you, Grandpa. They'd be in the church sitting down in front of you praying for you.
Grandma, Grandpa, your parents. And, if you had,or your parents had favorite, you know, like deacons and mother at the church—they all would just lay their hand on you and just pray for you and pray for you, so.
Yeah. It was really something serious then, you know.
Aleshia: I think they call that like an altar call, where they say, just lay it on the altar.
Aunt Dollie: Well, the altar call now is like when you go to the church and you do have problems and you go up front and the preacher would just pray for you then. But this, the morning bench was something different. You had to get down on your own knees while they was praying for you. You be on your knees. Everybody on the morning bench will be on their knees praying and you know, whatever you asking God for, you know.
You had to get on your knee and pray for it. And like I said, you stayed at the front of church sitting on the front pews, but the altar call now, it's a little different. Like the preacher will pray for you. If you got a problem, they tell you, come to the altar, bring it to the altar and you lay your problem at the altar, leave it there while the preacher praying for you. Go on back and leave it alone.
Aleshia: Wow. When was the last time you really had to lean on your faith?
Aunt Dollie: When my mother passed, because I felt like I was going to lose my mind. I felt like my heart came out of my chest. And then I had to like hear my baby sister being angry with God, talking about God. And I'm like, okay, I got to step in here now.
So I gotta have faith, Lord fix me right now. And then I'll be able to help the other two. So just fix me.
Yeah.
Aleshia: That was a tough time.
Aunt Dollie: Yes. Very tough.
Aleshia: That was the first time I ever heard my mama wail.
Aunt Dollie: Yeah.
Aleshia: That was the first time I knew the difference between like a crying and a wailing. Wailing is so—it comes from deep, deep inside within your soul.
Aunt Dollie: That was really hard. Cause I never expected my mother to go like that. And she knew.
She knew even before she died. She knew. Cause she was giving us our gifts. She wanted us to have her keepsakes.
But I never got angry. Like I said, but I didn't understand it. Like she's saying all of this. And she told me, but I wasn't paying her no attention. I don't think she was really concerned about me being in danger on the highway. You know, when she said, I want you to stop coming here every weekend—stay off the highway. Well, I can make you stay off.
How you gonna let me stay off?
Aleshia: That was deep. That was kind of spicy.
Aunt Dollie: Yeah, so she did.
Aleshia: Wow.
Aunt Dollie: Yeah, so that was, I think that was the hardest time when my mother passed away. I had to bring my faith out then and said, “Lord, I trust in you. You're going to help me. You're going to help me with the other family members. We gotta make it through this.”
And like I said, my baby sister was so angry at God till she was saying she hate God. I couldn't have her saying that. Cause see, I knew God better than she did cause I experienced a lot of stuff and she haven't.
Yeah. So I had to use my faith.
Aleshia: What lessons about faith do you hope live on in like your children, your grandchildren, great grandchildren, your nieces, your nephews, your great nieces, your great nephews, your great, great nieces, great, great, all of them.
Aunt Dollie: I just hope that they learn how to lean and depend on God.
You don't have to be out there worried about everything going on out there. Just go get on your knees, go in the closet, like they say in a room by yourself and just pray and ask God to help you. I hope they learn how to do that. Don't depend on your sister, your brother, your friend— go to God first That's why I hope they learn go to God .
Aleshia: Well, thank you Aunt Dollie.
I love learning because I think this is the first time we got deep into it. And that's, that's really cool. And just to hear that story, like about grandma, like the fact that she knew before she even fell. I didn't even know know about the fact that when you were 15 when you caught the Holy Spirit— like all of that.
Aleshia: Well, I love you too, niece.
Thank you.
Spirit + Soul with Aunt Dollie